industries fall away, but in general, these sorts of innovations are a good thing. it's good that it's easier for people to buy and sell things, and in general, in the past, the economy has figured out new things for people to do. >> yes, right, so, there's a thing called the lump of labor fallacy, which is this idea that every time there's a new labor-saving device that no one's going to have jobs anymore and people have been writing about this specter of automations since the 1700s, in fact. >> right. >> but there is worry that automation is getting to a point now where you really do start to encounter a real problem, right? like, how are people -- if you have these frictionless shops of all these interactions commercially or frictionless, like, where are the jobs going to come from? >> well, on main street right now it's tough, right? i mean, he said it before, all of the main streets that are working right now are in these wealthy areas, and the other places, people don't have jobs. the fact is, right now they don't have jobs. and we are in a transition. and with the optimism, the transition will end somewhere, but it doesn't end yet. i think in the middle, you have