council in february 1963, he said the same as president kennedy. different than american president. he defend his country, i defend my country. we have one in common. we want to preserve the peace. and we can work together. >> was very much the case, though, to both of you, ambassador, in those first meetings we were watching in vienna that khruschev -- nikita khruschev really took the measure of jack kennedy when he was first elected. and thought that he could really run circles around him. >> he took the measure of a young president who had had the failure of the bay of pigs and was not otherwise tested. and the major issue was what the future of berlin was going to be. when the soviets helped east germans build the wall in berlin, that i think we do