no -- if this is a camouflage, this is the only camouflage -- this is the biggest journalistic scoop that you could get, just by reading the identification line at the end of an op-ed, or by going to a website, right? there's no secret that epi is funded by businesses. we're completely up-front about that. but you don't like our point of view. and labor unions don't like our point of view. so instead of engaging our facts, they just want to try to discredit us and say, well, you're funded by wiz businesses. >> let's have a discussion. >> since the paper, we have seen a preponderance of evidence in the literature, which is going to become quite robust. >> debunked in the exact same journal -- >> no, it was not. it was not debunked. >> it was. >> the preponderance of the facts, in the peer review literature, which does not emanate out of some office suite run by rick berman shows that the things have not materialized in discontinuity study after discontinuity study that remains