is probably a very strong chief of staff, and for whatever ran, president obama doesn't want to seem to have one. >> he sort of did with emanual initially, but he also had nancy pelosi in the house. it wasn't the chief of staff managing -- >> but pelosi's fabulous. she had 100% when they reopened the government. 100%! nobody can do that anymore! she has the fear factor and the love factor. they love her and they fear her, the perfect combination. >> let me ask you, this story that you tell about the first time that reagan increases the debt ceiling and has to do so in relationship with tip o'neill, and o'neil asks for a personal note from the president, to each and every democratic member of the house, asking for his or her support in the matter of raising the debt ceiling. this was a brilliant piece of sort of political maneuvering. how did we go from that to the type of debt ceiling fights we're having now? >> i think tip didn't try to exploit it. he said, we've got to raise the