argument. the argument you're making is the following, that subsequent policy decisions are things that depressed the turnout in 2010. >> i disagree. >> completely a structural issue that has to do with getting these margin no voters who come out and are sort of not as attuned to the political process, getting them to come out as habitual voters as a matter of course. not because, oh, you didn't have a public option. >> oh, no, no, no. it's not because of that. it's because the people who bring out those voters are the activists who are trying to -- >> that's a more nuances -- that is a more nuanced theory. >> they're trying to protect their rear guard. the unions right now should not be worried that the president is going to push to cut social security. what they should be doing is pushing right now for comprehensive immigration reform. they should be going out there and convincing candidates to run on increasing the minimum wage. these are things that if you bring out that youth vote. but instead, they're watching their rear guard. the president has to let the democrats go forward on offense, instead of forcing them to play defense. >> do you think that makes sense? this sort of bank shot theory about how demoralization of activists has a cascade effect in terms of -- >> absolutely.