front in 2008 about saying this kind of eavesdropping was just fine as long as the fisa court said it was so. and he reversed himself just before he got the nomination. he got enough votes for the nomination but hadn't yet gone through his convention. he reversed himself right there. he flagged this up. you know, the truth is people have tried to engage in this debate on the civil liberties side, journalists, even politicians and not many people have shown much interest. >> sam, talking about the fisa courts, the president in the interview with charlie rose that's airing later tonight, says basically -- he talks about the warrants. he says what happens, if the fbi, if it wants to get content, if it wants to start tapping that phone, it's got to go to the fisa court with probable cause and ask for a warrant. now, ed snowden in his online chat with "the guardian," basically says more detail on how direct nsa's access is is coming. deep tease there. but in general the reality is this. "the restrictions against this are policy based, not