>> and by congressmen who've actually stated that they're not sure that they can completely -- keith ellison came out today and said the complicating factor here is based on the jargon that it's not always clear to some of the elected officials what they're even being told. i mean, i think it's one thing to say that we have to take seriously the national security of the country. that's a really important principle. and i think we certainly can talk about whether snowden and whether we should have contractors who are actually private contractors. seriously i would have taken the oath very seriously. it's wrong to say, the government oversight, secret court. it's one of the reasons why the aclu filed a lawsuit today. there's some form of slippery slope we should be concerned about here. your point, chris, about the trust factor is actually one we should take seriously. conservative republicans are concerned -- >> here's the distinction i want to make. bill, you made the point, used this word design. that to me is where this comes down to.