a second example also occurring in 2009 involved one of those involved perpetrators of the mumbai bombing in india, david hedley. we aborted a plot against danish news publisher based on the same kind of information. so those are two specific cases of uncovering plots through this mechanism that prevented terrorist attacks. >> now americans might say, yes, but terrorists succeeded in boston at the marathon. terrorists have succeeded elsewhere and not been thwarted despite all of this information that's gathered by nsa. >> well, that's true. and i find it a little ironic that in several weeks ago after the boston bombings, we were accused of not being sufficiently intrusive. we are -- we failed to determine