maker and are you surprised that it got to that? >> i am. i have to say, though, i think there's -- this is an example of where grassroots pressure did make a difference. i mean, at the end of the day, this is about human -- the human issues of children being killed, parents being mortified by what happened, and saying we have to change what's at play. this is exactly what we see happening with immigration. you see the grassroots pressure of everyday people saying enough is enough, something's got to change here. >> you disagree on the grassroots side? >> i don't think so at all, i think it's a media creation and a bunch of mayors. most of the votes exist in two big cities in the suburbs. gun control is popular in pennsylvania. i think that's really all it's about. i don't think anyone really cares much about gun control, to be honest. >> some people do care about it. >> in the last real grassroots