i think he was 58 when he was selected as pope. first of all, briefly, you know we've been talking about the church in crisis. i might be a minority, but i don't feel that the church is in crisis. the hierarchy is in crisis. but the faithful, that is the church, i don't think they feel a sense of crisis as much as they feel a sense of te despondency. i think it would send a strong signal if it was a third-world cardinal, from ghana or latin america. it would send a strong signal. >> the developing nations. i mean it's worth noting that there is not been a noneuropean pope in 1200 years. that was pope gregory iii from syria in the eighth century, that gives you of a, how long the catholic church has been around, and -- >> i'm not a big fan of tokenism. i think it would be great if we