rules. >> the jackknife lobby apparently more intense than -- more successful, powerful than we thought, ben. >> you sort of convinced me during the break that it's incredibly sexist. >> women are affected more by the liquid and gel rule. >> i have no problem checking my jab knife. >> crowley's gel. >> before we go, this all sort of leads me to question whether someone actually has their hand on the captain's wheel in terms of what is going on with rules and regulations. >> they're obviously operating totally out of irrationale fear, and a fear of having -- of making a mistake that causes a disaster. the whole cell phone incomprehensive ban on using cell phones that has zero grounding or any scientific reality. it has been a joke for years and years and years. still, causes constant real conflict and altercations and arrests on planes. >> the porous nature of the regulations. i'm not saying i do this, but the liquids have a certain -- you can't go over i think 3.2 fluid ounces, but you can bring, like, 64 bottles of 3.2 fluid ounces. therein lies the rub. i have never done that in my