for guidance, they're beginning to talk. they have been talking. you have to always consider the two sides of the pope's job, the pope in a sense has to manage his own family, the church itself on the inside. and there is kind of an organizational aspect of that. it's a large organization. but at the same time, he's really a spiritual father. so he needs to be able to inspire, to inspire by his example, to inspire by his word, to inspire by his creativity in finding ways to express the love of god, the message of jesus christ in new and effective ways and he has to be both an organizational leader and a spiritual father, not just for rome, not just for europe, but for the whole world. for the church which is all over the world. so you have those -- the interior management aspect. but you also have the relationship aspect. so to find a man who can combine those things is difficult. and at the same time the pope