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emerges, you're just going to have your fist in your forehead a lot because they're just going to outdo each other. and parties go through this. we went through it. >> joe's come up with, i think, a great frame on this. you were advising president clinton, then governor clinton in '91. you talked about the middle class, frankly the values of the party had strayed from -- or at least the public view separated from the mainstream of the country. what's the central message? joe's laid this out succinctly over and over again and i think expresses frustration, but how would you advise them, and what would be the not slogan but mantra? >> william buckley was starting it, he said you can't have the john burke society in here. this is not going to work. he slapped them back. when we were trying to emerge to take the '70s and to some extent the '80s out of the democratic party, bill clinton set up and said these kinds of lyrics are inappropriate. you can't do that. the republicans need somebody

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