infrastructure. those will be crowded out, because those, a big portion of the spending is committed to programs for older people. and if those grow on the -- at the rate that they have been growing it will squeeze out almost everything else. >> and one of the other dangers about that, too, aside from the automatic programs like medicare is that we can do reduction in a dumb way, instead of cutting tax expenditures and cutting in health care, we cut deep into things like education. and the sequester, which seems more likely to go into effect than i think anybody thought months ago, the sequester hammers education, social security, tax expenditures, a lot of the programs. >> the sequester is truly dumb policy, from lots of points of view. it would endanger the growth of our economy right now.