the table. stop talking about this. but it is so hermetically sealed in that world. >> yeah. >> that i don't see them getting out of it, other than someone making some sort of crass political judgment that this is no longer bringing the benefits that they thought it would. >> on the issue of what secretary clinton said today about bringing diplomacy and development up there so they're seen right as alongside with the defense. we know that's a goal of the obama administration. it may be their most ambitious goal. they haven't made much progress toward it, even with somebody as high profile as hillary clinton being in that job. will john kerry being there have the opportunity for them to go forward? >> i'm so glad you played that clip, because i thought that line was so powerful and important. how far we are institutionally and the sea process inside the white house and the relative weight of defense in state. >> yes.