senior levels. there are deputy chiefs of staff who are not even being mentioned as skrd to replace jack lew. >> it's the -- it's the optics. it doesn't help young women coming up to see these pictures. i think that the white house is always mentioning her az apossibility, and i think that was more just to let people know that they were considering a woman. i think that hagel was the choice the president all along, and that often happens. now, people -- the president and the people are saying, well, there's always women in the second tier jobs, but you don't see those women on tv. you see the secretaries and so, again, it's a problem with optics. >> susan page, you are such ab period of time as the bureau chief of usa today. mountain out of a mole hill, or as jean says, women have different experiences. we're 50% of the population, and being at the table makes a big difference. >> well, to be clear president