there. >> this is steve rattner, jim. i've been with some of those people who have been in the room, and i don't come away quite as optimistic as you do. the framework you've outlined i think is the sensible one, is the logical set of compromises that everybody's talking about. but then you get past some of those headline numbers, and you say how do you get that 1.2 trillion of revenue, what happens on rates, on deductions? and i don't sense that they've made any real progress toward narrowing that gap. the republicans are still saying we're not going to increase rates even though i think most of us think in the end they'll go up by something. the president's saying he's not compromising even though we assume he'll compromise by something. and then you get into these other cuts, and i think while there's an acceptance of the need to deal with medicare, you've still got to do another $1.5 trillion of discretionary cuts out of defense, out of other domestic programs, out of things democrats -- some of which democrats don't want to cut, some of which republicans don't want to cut. >> right. >> it's pretty ugly.