social movements, this happened in the 19th century with the industrial revolution. we still have the products, but workers -- >> you can be big and unionized. >> you said what's the problem with bigness? well, ultimately bigness is the network effect, it is monopolies. th that's why you had trust busting, and publishers getting together. >> i wanted to hear your thoughts on this as the operator of one of these dead-end boutique operators. >> there's no more independent bookstores, and in the last few years an increase in the number of independent bookstores. we're not asking people to shop with us because it's the right thing to do. we're bringing them in because what we do is good and it's what they want. but at the same time, we're not hoping to like take the place of other kinds of buying books. we're happy if people buy books wherever they are. but we do want an equal playing field. we want everyone to pay their sales tax, we want -- >> i want to -- >> i want to hear more about this level playing field. i think this actually gets to something pretty profound. and i also want to hear about,