i love local bookstores, i spend as much time as i can in them. i also buy from amazon because they can get books to my house, and walmart prices are not just lower, they're 25% to 40% lower. and those prices, not just sort of well, this is good because prices are lower. this is a huge boon to the lowest fifth of the american consumer. to the people who are the least well off in the country. >> yes. >> also look at the costs of those prices, though. the cost of those prices is that you end up with walmart workers on welfare rolls. you look at towns and communities end up net poorer when the walmart is there because it's an extractive force rather than what she's got. >> this isn't quite true. no, no, no -- there's been pretty good research that has shown that walmart-style big-box retailing is responsible for about 50% of the u.s. productivity gains between 1995 and 2005. roughly. >> right. >> in that decade.