of good civility. he didn't call him mr. obama, he called him mr. president. throughout there's a lack of deference. >> that's what a challenger was has to do when you're running against the president. >> treat him like he's not president. >> make him think you're as presidential as the actual president. you have been through this. >> anyway, thank you. i wouldn't be that kind. i think he was so lacking in deference it was db. >> the second debate he lacked deference. >> the first time he masked it. chuck todd, thank you, gentlemen, smart guys. jonathan martin. coming up, the battle for the female vote, can't help republicans when congressman joe walsh says concern for the health of the woman is just an excuse to have an abortion. kathleen turner comes here, the kathleen turner, to fight the fight for women. also it got hot in senate debates across the country. check out that bout between sherrod brown and his republican opponent josh mandel. >> being called a liar, a liar