which is those principles i described are the heart of my policy -- >> can you give me an example of a loophole you will close? >> i can tell you that people at the high end, high income taxpayers, are going to have fewer deductions and exemptions. >> running mate paul ryan, the didn't fare much better on that question. >> if you take those loopholes, those tax shelters away from high income earners, more of their income is subject to taxation and that allows us to lower tax rates on everybody. what we don't want to do is cut some backroom deal like obama care and hatch it to the country. we want this out in the open. >> why not say right now -- >> because we want to have this -- george, because we want to have this debate in the public. >> okay. they want to have it in the public. their math doesn't add up and they're not having that debate very quickly, no the before november. as expert after expert has said, there simple are not enough tax deductions at the top without touching investment income to make up for the loss of ref view. the dirty secret is romney will have to eliminate deductions for the middle class. they will be cutting taxes while