and so i said to him, i said can you help me out on something? because i've been looking for a week and a half to try to figure out the basis of this welfare reform ad. i've scoured the wall street journal editori iaial pages. could you -- he said oh, that's completely false. it's just completely false. and i -- i was pretty stunned. >> does it make a difference what comes out of of the candidate's mouth versus this other stuff? >> well, if it's bill burton, that's one thing. >> when the candidate is out on the stump saying this stuff, do voters treat that differently? i would say there should be a higher bar. a successful bar -- he had his people out here landing the punches. when he got to talk, he'd do it with a bit of humor, make his