help people think. that's what a catholic university -- >> the funny thing is and i would say this to liberal and conservatives of every religion. when i was growing up, one of the things we always valued were the great church thinkers, have arguments in the middle of the night and argue all night their religious faith and quite confident doing it. >> the great catholic jesuit the architect of the reform vatican, too, the vatican wanted to silence him in 1954 and he became a hero of the church. we have to keep the debate open. >> thank you, e.j. you're a good guy. when we return, what we should do if we really want to reduce the number of abortions in this country.