and jonathan, i never understood, i still don't understand politically why the revenue collapse that really exposed how expensive our country is to run is never even part of the debate. >> well, because the republicans don't want it to be. >> what about the democrats? >> well, i mean, the democrats will talk about it. but there is something else you have it add on top of the revenue collapse. and that's costs that were born by the country that people didn't pay attention to. hunk of that, sh tax cuts. i think you showed $16 trillion pz. >> yeah. >> then on top of that, president obama did something that bush never did with the wars of iraq and afghanistan. obama in february 2009 put both of those wars on the books. that also added to the deficit. >> rob, the politics of revenue and the absence of a growth strategy as a component, i'm all in for a debt cutting and cost savings and there's a lot of