defining exactly what the volcker rule of that whole issue of self-trading by the banks is all about. >> but do you think this is covered? do you think that -- i mean, obviously, whatever safe barreds were in place -- safeguards in place didn't work. >> the investigation pending before the regulators, how they defiant could very well cover this. you know, the fact that jamie dimon says, you know, it was poorly vetted, poorly supervised, it was stupid, that's all bright in hindsight. but the reality is that we need to ensure that what right now is a $2 billion loss and i have read public reports that suggests could grow as high $4 billion, that's still -- that still may not undermine jpmorgan. jpmorgan was the gold standard in terms of looking at risk and controlling risk. there are a lot of other entities out there that could very well have that type of risk and maybe not sustain such