madison avenue and worked for a lot of really big p ad agencies and big offices, and now he works on the third-floor walk-up, and really cool and retro offices, but they are really doing it. he boot strapped it for a while, and then he proved right away that there's something here and he got the angel investors and the venture capital funding which he did not go to set out to do. how many of the companies that you work with find that they have got something, and then go out and go out to find funding, but they don't go out knowing that they have something huge? >> well, the biggest challenge is not getting funding, but customers. at the tour events the best funder initially is the customer. the customer will give you money and incredible feedback to it rate. and the reality is once you have momentum for boot strapping, it is so much easier for investors. >> yes. and i love the mission, melinda, stopping the small business