on the back end of this we're seeing it hitting african-americans, low income communities, high democratic party voting communities, hitting labor. this is not what democracy looks like. >> obviously, in a lot of towns facing these kinds of takeovers, facing having their local voting rights overruled, there are big financial problems. a lot of different kinds in these cities. do you think the concern about the overall health of municipalities in michigan is primary in people's minds or with the emergency manager law, are people worried about losing their rights? what do you see as the balance between those two levels of concern? they have a big impact on people's day-to-day lives. >> this is a false dilemma. we don't need financial -- we need recovery. let's deal with foreclosure. 90,000 foreclosures in the city of detroit. 90,000 forced evictions in the last three years. you look at 300,000 people leaving one city, you're seeing the tax base leave. it's not in financial strain