well, the economy was in bad shape. i just -- like if paul ryan were going to be president instead of barack obama, i think it's safe to say that there would be a radical difference there. but do you really see that with mitt romney and barack obama? because i just don't. >> i think that's a fair point. and, look, there are a lot of things that obama did which were continuations of bush policies to some degree. but in part, though, it's because he took office during a financial crisis. and there weren't a whole lot of different things you could do. you couldn't radically change directions. there wasn't a way to dramatically cut the deficit, to go into austerity measures while the economy was in freefall. but i think a lot of things done during that period, health care form an obvious example, were pretty dramatic. and i think if paul ryan were there, that would have turned out quite differently. but i really do think mitt romney if he takes office is going to govern not that differently than paul ryan. and i don't mean that in a bad way, one way or the other.