scenes, charles hass, we had some testimony as it were, television testimony from this witness who said it was very, very dark, he could not make out specifics very much of what he was looking at in this altercation. he said one person was on top of the other very clearly. it was his sense, but he couldn't be absolutely sure of it that it was the person on top who did the shooting. and when asked if he saw, which is a relevant ballistics question, if he saw any sort of flame, any sort of spark or anything that might have emerged from the end of a barrel of a gun he said he couldn't see that. with this 9 mm weapon that we know was used in this incident, would you see any sort of flame, any sort of spark emerging from the barrel of that gun? >> in the darkness, yes, you -- under normal conditions you would see muzzle flash, but what we have to take into