and what will happen is 700,000 pennsylvanians, mostly poor people, people of color, students, elderly people, and handicapped people will no longer be eligible to vote. they say, well, you can go get a voter i.d., but you have to have a birth certificate, you have to have a social security card, you have to travel to a penndot office to do that. all of that costs money, takes time. and the thing about voter suppression, you don't have to suppress every vote. if you can knock downturnout by 25%, 30%, that's going to make a real difference in close elections. that's the goal here. >> i want to be clear here because judith was talking about the south. this is pennsylvania now. we're talking about in pennsylvan pennsylvania. they want to pass these laws when you've had zero voter i.d., photo i.d. fraud established, according to you. we went back all fraud, we looked at all fraud since '99. out of 31 million votes cast in pennsylvania, there's only been