compared to what? and a reasonable person would say, what would spending and taxes had been if the president had not acted. most will say that we will not continue to spend in iraq and afghanistan what we will have spend in the last few years. >> maybe $850 billion is too much, but zero is too little. >> it's a political document, right? and the president is using accounting fudge and all presidents have done that, it gets back to the point, it's not really a serious fiscal document. it's a campaign document. >> you and i both went in on the tax proposals, at them yesterday, and one thing they admitted, yes, aassuming the old tax rates will apply and they say assuming we negotiate tax reform and you went in on the growth and dividend issue. go more at what you said? >> as we were discussing a