>> okay. that was the former white house intern who makes explosive claims in her book "once upon a secret: my affair with president john f. kennedy" and its aftermath. chris matthews is with us, i want to point out that he probably practiced birth control. and i'm dead serious. >> chris, you know a lot of people are surprised and this is shocking. it's not. i mean, we heard about the two interns -- >> fiddle and faddle. >> joe kennedy would try to make out with his daughter's dates when they would come over to the house. >> some say. >> some say. >> he went the other way. >> i'm sorry. well, also with some of the daughters' friends when they would come over. this is not shocking for people that have known -- >> well, part of it is -- first of all, there's no defense of it. >> no, not at all. >> i talk a lot about that in my