dear. in political terms, it's just an act of incredible insensitivity, especially to people like father john jenkins, and father larry snider of catholic charities that serves 10.5 million people. the sister of the catholic health association who stood up to many of the most conservative bishops and endorsed the president's health care bill and supported it at political risk. it's just turning the back on them and turning the back on what the president himself has said time and again to archbishop dolan in a private meeting. just to me, it's just dumb -- bad policy, bad politics, bad pre precedent. >> and mark, catholics stopped being an interesting subset in our polling decades ago, when it turns out catholics have basically the same views as the population as a whole. for example, they tend to support abortion rights in exactly the same numbers as the general population. maybe one or two points higher.