management. >> romney beats obama. that's part of the story. but there's a lot more diversity now than twl used to be. let me ask you about these states. if the democrats hold on to wisconsin, michigan, illinois, is that enough? >> gone. >> you lose indiana and ohio. what about the rest? >> yeah. there's a conceivable pathway to the white house. >> wisconsin? or which one? >> i would probably say wisconsin. absolutely. wisconsin has been one of those states that has always been on the bubble. who is going to be able to go into wisconsin and make the case. a governor under siege. i think the governor is going to survive. >> i think you may be right. >> i think his numbers --