>> elaborate. >> it's a complex problem we have with education in america. there's a lot of people trying to fix it from a lot of different directions. and in my opinion, as a filmmaker, i think that compounds the problem. the fact that we're coming at it from so many different angles, from the top of the period, from the middle of the pyramid, but we're not coming at it from the bottom, where the teacher has the contact, the teacher is causing learning with the student. that's what we need to be focused. those are the people that need to be changing policy and driving policy in america. >> at the end of the day, doesn't it not matter what anybody thinks you should do -- in other words, i recognize -- it's insane, because we know, it has been demonstrated how it is that people learn. shouldn't we just be doing that? >> well, there's a fear in doing that. because then you have a collective group. and i think sometimes -- >> well, groups learn? >> we have groups that learn, they become empowered, and they start to voice concerns and