equation is changing a little bit. we've always had in mind, it's a smart way to -- a debt you take on for education is a smart debt, because you're going to be able to earn more in the future and so on. but we've got a lot of people now who are graduating from colleges with a ton of debt and no jobs are available. so they're looking around saying, i thought this was the right thing to do, and suddenly it's not looking like such a smart move. i think that's fueling a lot of frustration. >> the logic was, you get this higher education, get the higher-paying job, and over time, you can pay down that debt. >> that's still good logic, by the way. the data is extremely clear, the more education a person tends to have, the more money they get paid. but this is a tough time. not a great time to be entering the job market. this is going to be a tough job market for several years. that's where this pinch is coming from, i think. >> unfortunately, though, we're seeing a huge rise in student loan defaults, as we take a look at this, the president announcing these new initiatives meant to counteract it, take the burden of 1.2 million borrowers.