song to be that donna summer -- she works hard for the money? >> they're trying to bring it back to -- >> right, exactly. >> i want to know, just your bottom line, who won the back and forth when she took opportunity to mention that he'd posed naked for -- nude for "cosmopolitan" years ago when he was in law school. and then he made the personal shot at her. >> yeah. >> who won in that exchange? >> i think she did. >> your thoughts on that, david corn? and then we'll get back to the history part. >> no, no, no. she won because he engaged in frat boy humor. and then he kind of said, it was just a joke. it was a joke about what he thought about her appearance. and you know, she was -- >> he was like a kid yelling out a dormitory window at some women walking by. >> thank you god she didn't take off her clothes. we know what he meant. and he can't sort of really fess up and say, you know, that was a bad remark on my part. and then it's sort of spinning into this debate about their respected biographies, which she wins as well. >> let's get to the thing. just to finish it up, alex wagner, is this just a case of a guy being gross?