recall sp-5. >> what's sb-5? >> what is it? this is the bill that kasich put in there that took away public bargaining, collective bargaining for public employees. including cops, including firemen, and teachers, and everybody else. i want him to fight. i don't want him to back up anymore. you know what, stare these people down. i think we can beat them. you know what, maybe we've got to go to 12, take them on. we're either going to win or lose. you can't keep backing up. and there's no appeasing these people. there's no middle ground. he learned that. he learned that there's no middle ground. he says, he'll give me a billion in revenue or whatever and i'll do -- there's no middle ground. they've all signed that thing. they don't want to negotiate. they say, our way or the highway. and he's got to say, okay. that's the way it is. then that's my way, too. >> you're saying that the president may be stymied on policies to create more jobs but that he can still do more on the bully pulpit? >> i think he's got a job on this thing. he's got to go to the american