might be more of a herring towards this kinds of thing. >> he's certainly a tortoise. geez, i mean, he's a slow mo. i mean -- >> he's, but he's been building. >> something, michael -- >> who do you think? >> i'm having fun. >> she will not -- >> less pizazz, seems like a nice gentleman, a good public servant. michael, the idea of him zooming to the country's attention and standing up against the president of united states, one of the most skilled around, no charisma compared to all charisma? can you go up against a candidate like that? >> you don't know what the dynamics will play out to be. certainly i've seen tim pawlenty in close quarters do pretty good things in terms of the crowd anç motivating and moving a crowd. what i like to see is to have that demonstrated now so you get that feel and get that juice going so that you can be prepared to go up against a barack obama, who is going to be very, very formidable.