and i understand this, although i completely disagree with it, that is taking a principled stand. so when you're dealing with that, when some folks are not even willing to compromise, it's hard to figure out, you know, how will we get there until you know what the details are. >> in terms of how we're going to get there, let's talk about when we're going to get there. both of you give me an idea whether or not we're going to go down to august 2nd at midnight. and if we do that is it too late? i mean, has damage been done? robert first. >> i don't think it's going to go down literally to the wire. i think it's probably going to be early next week -- or excuse me, early this week, perhaps wednesday or thursday. maybe tuesday. look, you're playing with fire here. >> right. >> and i think speaker boehner and president obama realize that. just in terms of the reputational repercussions, if you will, around the world. so i think this is going to get done probably by tuesday or wednesday of this week. >> karen? >> i think it gets done this week, but i think the damage is already done. i think that's what boehner and the president are starting to recognize, that even if we get a deal this week we're still going to have to do some work to