it was disturbing and dramatic even without the humble pie that you described just now. >> despite his testimony of hearing no evil and seeing no evil, creating that web of control would require an overview of all of the interlocking parts of it, and that overview was impossible to have sitting at any one individual murdoch property. you'd have to have a view of all of the murdoch properties that were interacting this way. >> you would, and one of the interesting things, lawrence, and i think you of all people astute as ever have picked this up, murdoch's power and control was particular and specific. he talks, for example, about the fact that last year when david cameron built a coalition government in may of 2010, he was one of the first visitors to number 10 downing street, and guess what, he entered through the back door, now i remember