inability to come to grips with it. even if it's in the out years. sure, you could take the argument that right now, with the latest unemployment reports, you don't want to start cutting deeply or raising taxes right now. but if you do it after 2012, if you do it in 2013, as our colleague, bob woodward was saying on our show, that is credible to the markets. it has enforcement. >> let me go. who on the hill -- i know it's a very tough question. i worked up there. it seems to be very hard to find big thinkers. is there someone on the hill who is not thinking pure partisan politics, who is thinking about the need to have a long-term debt reduction that will convince the world that the united states is still serious on fiscal matters? >> well, chris, as you know, the days of patrick moynahan and bob dole are long gone. but i would say if you want to look in terms of a seary proposal that would put political pain across all