program? >> as between president obama's plan, which is doing nothing, and paul ryan's plan, if that bill came to my desk, i'd sign it, but i have my own plan, and it'd different in some respects to congressman ryan's plan. >> i want to do a couple policy notes and we only have a few minutes left. i'll go through them. first on libya, you said we've got to get gadhafi out of there. would you send ground troops there at this point? >> not necessarily. look at what president reagan did, for example, to remove governments in certain areas. you don't necessarily have to send in ground troops. when the rebels had gadhafi on the ropes in the early days, in the early hours of this, had taken over most of the country geographically, he was openly talking about leaving, if the president in that moment would have been decisive and strong and threatened or imposed the no-fly zone, my view is we could have toppled gadhafi then. instead -- >> that sounds like a different reading of what the situation was at time. tripoli always seemed difficult to get, and now by the rebels' estimation, tripoli would be hard to take. by the way, how do you do it without ground troops?