what are you going to cut? england has cut, greece has cut, portugal has cut, ireland has cut. come on, mr. president, what are you going to cut? >> i think in theory that's what they could say. but if they actually get to a state where they don't raise the ceiling, the markets panic, interest rates go up, they could say you americans are feeling the pain of what's going to happen. you'll feel it because your mortgage payments will go up, car payments will go up, college payments will go up because the interest rates go up. i think around the kitchen table where people are not necessarily talking about debt ceilings, th that's -- is that what americans are talking about? if the interest rates go up, their bills are going to go up. know, mika, you're skeptical. i tell you if i were government speaker -- forget the government shutdown. this, the debt ceiling, this is an argument i could win every day. >> you think the government