>> what would jesus take? >> no, not jesus. >> reverend norquist. >> the most powerful man in america who does not sleep in the white house. >> now, grover norquist is facing a challenge. >> republican tom coburn said this about tax reform. >> if taxes end up going up in some capacity, would you not be in violation of that? >> which pledge is more important, david? is the pledge to uphold your oath to the constitution of the united states or a pledge from a special interest group. >> grover norquist is accusing republican senator of oklahoma, tom coburn, of violating the pledge. >> willing to throw grover norquist under the bus. >> reporter: grover norquist joins us. >> it really does seem now everything is on the table. >> republicans who refuse to raise taxes continue to scare bankers and investors with threats to not raise the debt ceiling. >> i will vote no on raising the debt ceiling. >> dire warnings. >> absolutely unbelievable. >> disastrous for the economy. >> the alternative would be catastrophic for our economy.