hurt donald trump because you can't fall off the floor. he's not going anywhere. but the reason i think republican candidates right now aren't exciting is we haven't started the campaign yet, guys. give them time. one thing i've learned over the years is campaigns don't pick candidates, campaigns make candidates. republicans go through a test, they go through the gauntlet just like a skinny state senator from illinois did, and it makes some of them strong, makes them presidential material. we'll go through that process. but meanwhile, the campaign obama does not want as a referendum on obama. that's what he's got now because there's no real opposition. >> john mccain encouraged sarah palin to get in. how do you gauge her level of interest and effectiveness at this point? >> i think sarah palin has become so relevant to the process now that it's almost as if she had been elected vice president. no one's paying any attention to her. i think she's running but not in the person of sarah palin. it will be michele bachmann that will fill her role. >> all right. we'll take another break here and come back with a new segment