of a -- of a laughing stock for some people. and that in turn illustrates the republicans' long-term objective and story, which is the government is the problem, and you don't really need government. which is obviously silly. >> what should the democrats' response be to congressman ryan's budget plan? >> i would love the democrats to come up with their own budget plan that is not only a serious budget plan for reducing the long-term deficit, but also raise taxes on the very wealthy, the super rich in this country. they have seen for the last 30 years their portion of national income continue to grow and grow and grow. and yet their tax rates, their income tax rates, capital gains tax rates, their estate taxes, all continue to drop. i mean, why not? be democrats and say to the public, and i think most of the public agrees with this, that the rich have to pay their fair share. >> robert reich, the author of "aftershock, the next economy in america's future." thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> what are the real effects of a government shutdown? do soldiers still get their paychecks? does the president? how about congress? and what does a government shutdown mean for you? coming up, i'll talk with ezra klein about what really shuts