middle east. second of all, if you care about peace in the middle east about israel, egypt is the center piece of the modern middle east, it's peace with israel takes off the table a widespread regional war, arabs versus srlz. egypt has been a stalwart in the effort against global terrorism and al qaeda. >> let me tell you right there. is it safe to say at least on the margins, people may mindlessly see what's going on and see the corruption and see the fact that this has been a very oppressive leader, undemocratic, doing things that we hate as americans. but without thinking, isn't it safe to say that on the margins, mubarak has made americans safer at home when it comes to the war against terrorists? >> absolutely. this has been a policy that has worked. the tragedy to policy is that there wasn't a larger element of gradual reform.