trait. but most of all, i know bill to be somebody who cares deeply about this country. believes in its promise and considers no calling higher and more important than serving the american people. >> will he be the real chief of staff, chuck, first, and then howard. will he able to hire and fire in the white house or will everything has to be approved by the president. >> well, no, i think that he'll have real power. this is not to say that he has to get everything approved but more of an inside/outside game. he'll not be gate who will try to legislate congress. you know, obama 1.0 was working with congress, 2.0 is getting there message out in the country and figuring out how to use the presidency and the executive branch without dealing with congress as much. it was sort of the challenge that clinton had in -- after republicans took control of congress. and that's what he's going to be, he'll be more of an outside game, where pete rouse, who's still staying, he there to deal