especially a presidential year. i think it's not just about the upper earners. what about the middle class tax cuts. peter orszag, the president's budget director is the one who raised his eyebrows when he left saying we can't afford any of these, not the middle class tax cuts, not the tax cuts for the upper earners, not if you want to be serious about the debt. by 2012, we'll come to a period where the president will deal with the debt situation with republicans or not. >> mike, do you remember 1984. >> walter mondale. >> i promise to raise your taxes, and it was as if that horn from the flintstones. they didn't do it well in '84. they're not going to promise to raise taxes in 2012. they lost this debate, they lost the tax war. >> for the boys and girls out there in the audience, we're describing a ploemt at the 1984 democratic convention in san francisco where the then vice president, former vice president